This is an excerpt from an interview with Talia Mae Bettcher, professor and former Chair of the department of philosophy at California State University, Los Angeles. Talia Mae Bettcher talks about growing up born again in Canada, the Trinity, Tolkien, Asimov, socially blossoming at Glendon College, the ontological argument, existential psychoanalysis, feminism, Euripides, Rousseau, The Unconscious as Infinite Sets, Saussurian linguistics, the Berlin Wall, Kit Fine, going to UCLA for grad school, living a double life, a downward spiral, her new book, coming out to her department with the support of Barbra Herman, Sandra Harding, queer theory, Jake Hale, how John Carriero saved her, the self, early modern philosophy and ordinary language philosophy, the Smoker, landing a one year gig in a small town, her triumphant return to the Los Angeles area, what it’s like to be chair at Cal State LA, Caitlin Jenner, gender critical feminists, cottage industries, the LAPD, how she’s evolved as a philosopher, Hypatia, Daily Nous and philosophy on the internet, the future of philosophy, the 5, and her last meal…
As a kid, what did you do for fun?
As I kid, I read a lot. I loved science fiction, fantasy, and mystery. I also wrote poetry and short stories. I had a very rich “inner life” as I struggled with social interactions with other kids my age.
Any sign you’d grow up to be a philosopher?
Yes, there were definite signs. As I entered first grade I decided that I wanted to be either a writer, a professor, or a theologian (my family was born-again Christian). I had a habit of annoying my Sunday school teacher by asking astute questions about the doctrine of the Trinity. I really got into the subtleties of the religion. When I was twelve, I liked to draw pictures of reality – schematic representations, not pictures of a universe comprised of stars and planets, but rather, odd geometrical representations. I begin to hit my stride at the end of high school when writing essays became increasingly important. I found that I excelled at that form of writing. My poetry was actually pretty horrible, and I could never really successfully pull off a short story. But essays were my thing. And from the beginning they were quite philosophical.
So did you read any philosophy?
I never considered philosophy in high school. I don’t think I knew of its existence. The only “philosophizing” I knew of was with my dad – we’d get into this long-winded back-and-forth sometimes – about politics, religion, and human nature.
Also, one of the last papers I wrote in high school was about AI. I was really into that at the time – really before I knew about the existence of philosophy.
Actually, that’s not entirely true. I was exposed to Cicero and possibly Aristotle when I was an exchange student in Belgium during one of my last years of high school. I went to Catholic school in Visé– just outside of Liège. I don’t remember really anything about the philosophy I studied, however. I had other things on my mind, such as coping with the loneliness of being away from my family for the first time, trying to fit in, and travelling Europe on a Eurorail pass.
Inspirational teachers? How did you end up majoring in philosophy?
My first year I took a year-long GE class in critical thinking. Not only did I learn how to name the different ways I was thinking, we were given the opportunity to apply our critical thinking skills to questions about God. This was cathartic. I finally had the opportunity to think through all of this stuff about religion. I earned an A+ by writing a paper on the problem of evil (which, for me, was also the problem of gender – I kept that secret).
I was trying to develop what I called a “nontological” argument that basically inverted Anselm’s classic. Unfortunately, I had to rely on an empirical claim (the existence of evil), so I couldn’t make any a priori moves. Instead, I resorted to the performative gesture of announcing one’s disbelief in God as sufficient to disprove the existence of God (or, at least, a certain conception thereof).
Did you talk to your parents about your religious doubts?
Yes. Well, “talking” isn’t the right word. I got a little obnoxious about it in undergrad. I’d go out of my way just to provoke them. I guess as a young person, it was my job to act that way. But, in retrospect, I regret it. Christianity outlines the meaning of my parents’ lives. Why attack the meaning of my parents’ lives? They had never been anything but good to me.
Any other interesting courses? How did you get back into philosophy?
Ironically, it wasn’t really philosophy courses that convinced me to major in philosophy. I struggled a bit in French. I was just okay, not great. Meanwhile, I was taking these courses to fulfill my GE requirements. Most of them weren’t philosophy courses, but they were philosophical or at least highly theoretical in content.
One of the most influential courses I took was with Donald Carveth, a practicing psychoanalyst. It was ostensibly a sociology course. But the topic of the course was human nature. A lot of it was on Freud. We ended up even looking a bit at existential psychoanalysis as well as Lacan. He was a notoriously tough instructor, so it was quite something to earn an A+ in the course. But the content got me so excited. I explored it on my own. I felt like I was finally home.
I still remember the first graded essay I received back from him. It was doused in red. I mean, it was saturated with comments and corrections. I was devastated. I had worked so hard on this paper. I had actually lost myself in it. When I finally saw that the paper had actually earned an A from him (something he was apparently quite stingy about), I learned a valuable lesson. The harsh criticism I had received from him was a reward. I had earned his time and attention.
The full interview will be available at What Is It Like to Be A Philosopher? You can get early access to interviews and support the project here.
Clifford Sosis
Cliff Sosis is a philosopher at Coastal Carolina University. He created, and in his spare time he runs What Is It Like to Be a Philosopher? in-depth autobiographical interviews with philosophers. In Sosis's words, "Interviews you can’t find anywhere else. In the interviews, you get a sense of what makes living, breathing philosophers tick. How one becomes a philosopher. The interviews show how our theories shape our lives and how our experiences influence our theories. They reveal what philosophers have in common, if anything, and what our goals are. Overall, the interviews give you a fuller picture of how the people who do philosophy work, and a better idea of how philosophy works. This stuff isn't discussed as often as it should be, I think, and these stories are extremely interesting and moving!" He has a Patreon page here and tweets @CliffordSosis.
